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Poster: reviewr Date: May 20, 2011 7:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Songs that improved with age

Any GD songs get better as time went by?
I think a few did: Deal, Cassidy, The Misic Never Stopped.
Agree? Disagree?

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: May 21, 2011 5:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

Depends on what you mean by "age". If you mean tunes that got better over just their first few years, then I think quite a number of songs fit that description. "Playin'", "Truckin'", etc. But if by "age" you mean "better in the 80s or 90s than in the 60s or 70s" then the list shrinks substantially for me. I would agree with "Deal" and "Cassidy", maybe a couple of other shorter songs. Some of the "Bird Songs" of the early Brent years are quite strong. But most Dead songs seemed to follow a natural arc of peaking after 2-4 years, remaining there for a while, then gradually sloping off. "Eyes" is one I think of as being about as good in its first year or so as it would ever be.

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Poster: billydlions Date: May 21, 2011 6:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

Jack Straw, Sugaree, Brown Eyed Women, Big RR & Deal were great in the early 80's. I like Uncle John's Band better in the 80's too. Some songs like Cumberland and Birdsong were great in both the 70's and 80's. I know I'm in the minority here by liking the St Stephens from 76-78 better than the older versions (not that I dislike them). I also like the Dew's best starting in 73-74 and in to the 80's.

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Poster: TOOTMO Date: May 23, 2011 2:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

"I also like the Dew's best starting in 73-74 and in to the 80's."

BDL, I would agree to an extent but then I crank this up (or my cell phone rings) and I am swayed back to the primal.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1967-10-22.sbd.yerys.1525.shnf

It's all good,
TOOTMO

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Poster: fourempties Date: May 20, 2011 8:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

Last time I gave my 2 cent on this subjects, some of the era snobs here got their briefs all in knots. Did TMNS improve through the 70s? I would say yes. Through the 80s and 90s. I would say no. I think a lot of the ballads gained impact in the stadium shows of the late 80s. Candyman and Stella Blue played loud from this era give me goosebumps.

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Poster: reviewr Date: May 20, 2011 8:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

Your mention of the ballads reminds me: Black Peter and High Time are also great in the later years. I agree about Candyman too.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: May 20, 2011 9:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

TMNS is one of the tunes where I really miss Donna when she's gone. (Another being Row Jimmy.)

Interesting thought on late-era Stella and Candyman. Any examples?

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 20, 2011 10:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

I`d definitley say theres a good arument for Candyman, especially the way Garcia explodes the solos

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Poster: fourempties Date: May 21, 2011 7:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

Both in the same show!!

http://www.archive.org/details/gd87-3-31.fm.14524.sbeok.shnf

This post was modified by fourempties on 2011-05-21 14:49:58

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Poster: utopian Date: May 22, 2011 10:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

Stella and candy man both took more shape for me in the last half.

One of my favorite stella's 6-26-84
One of my favorite candy mans 4-10-87 when phil introduces Billy and Mick, who are very synced.

Spring 87 was a really fun time, not much buzz lately though.

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Poster: utopian Date: May 21, 2011 12:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age yes and no

I find it very interesting to track the subtle seasonal changes in songs. The stlylistic evolutions came rapidly and many themes were bouncing from one end to the other of extremes, Within each respective year.

Some songs got better, some not. But its a question of which songs were more suited to the phrasing/tone/or effect that each era put on the band sound. And most of all its what effect you personally like when choosing shows.

68- fall 69
The psychedelic dead never sounded better.
Peak Dead in general
other one
dark star
new potatoe

70
stripped down folky feel,

71
mowtown gleen

72
with all the hubbub of the coming release I have to say I really don't get the facination with 72. The rapid explosion of new songs lends more to the standard reads with little jamming, especially set one. The jams were usually relegated to the end of set 2. I have to be super selective with song choice to even entertain the thought, and be very close to the fast foreward button. Take those same first set tunes and fast foreward a few years to get to a more open version with more well developed licks. This era they seem to be trying to hard for a sound, not letting the naturalness come out. Too much country for me, from vocals to jerry's tone.

73-74
The band still had a real country twinge but many would describe this as the jazzy era which I would somewhat agree with. The cowboy tunes never sounded better than in this folk/country era. Another era of peak dead.

El paso
sugar mags
They Love each Other
HC sunshine
Greatest story
Row Jimmy
bertha
GDTRFB

77-79
If I want to introduce anyone to the band this, or 89-90, is what I put on. Each one of these years of the late 70's could demand days worth of writing, but I'll lump it together just for today.
BE women
sugaree
Scarlet Fire
Cassidy
Music
Peggy o
samson
1/2 step
Help Slip
Franklins


Again each one of these years is drastically different
80
train came back on tracks and the simple formula of rock n roll. Goodby disco dead
81 spring has its moments, fall is when the band had to take jerry aside.

82-85
the music really picks back up for me in 82
minglewood
jack straw
black peter
birdsong
west la
big rr
crazy fingers
loser

87-91
china rider
morning dew
candyman
wharf
playin
althea
terrapin
stanger
wheel






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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 21, 2011 2:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age yes and no

it always amazes me how vastly different people experiences are. For instance I like the country sound ( which is an opinion not an experience ) but I think 71 is THE year for that sound way better than the 73/74 you mentioned. Im talking specifically just the cowboy numbers. But I`m absolutely amazed you don`t see the brilliance of 72. I think their sound after europe in the fall has a more hard edge agressive tone that i could see your argument on being forced ( i still love it ) but imo Europe 72 is bar none THE best the band ever played or sounded. Every show is perfect and their tone so well balanced and majestic. a lot that i attribute to keith and the grande piano. im not one of those that has to have jamming to be good some of my favorite dead are the subtle little nuiances and touches and extra detail they throw in to just a simple song. but as far as no jamming 72 has some incredible stuff. the dark stars went further than ever before and they turned the other one into way deeper spaces than just the all balls out hit you over the head intesnity it had before

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Poster: utopian Date: May 21, 2011 6:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age yes and no

It is interesting the different eras that grab a hold of people. There has been one time or another that grabs me but I would generally say the dead peaked several times

Summer68-spring 69
Spring 73-summer74
Spring 77
Spring 78
Fall 79
Fall 82
Sumer 89
Spring 90
Is generally what I regard highly, with of course many good shows in between.

Spring 71 i enjoy as well A little more of a classic sound, timeless, It hits me like dead doing mowtown Would. E72 had alot if effect on it, the country twang, too arranged and orchestrated for me. whilst the fall 72 got deeper darker in the jams, I really like pigpen, Not his organ as
much as his songs that he sung. I think Keith was beyond brilliant, musically, for the most part. But I don't think it came together until spring 77 for the cleanest, tightest, jam oriented, start to finish blistering shows.

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Poster: utopian Date: May 21, 2011 6:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age yes and no

Listen to whatever you like, of course. Engage in discussion if you wish its not my goal to convince you of anything. We all have different perspectives and desires. And there us alot if changes to track and appreciate in the vast catalog.

Yea i hear you, some people like the first set standard reads, 'play it like the album jerry.' and don't require the sauce to get their rocks off. I can see that perspective and Of course there was jamming in e72, but more often relegated to end of set 2. Yes some if the darkstars went far, well long but sometimes that train went off the tracks to screeching or a complete stop, as in pause of the action, 5-4-72. But what I can clarify is there is a affect, or color, or nuance, or tone of the deads playing in 72 that sometimes hurts my head. If that's the way I can describe it. If I'm not in the ultra mood or doing research, it doesnt stay on too long. Just my own personal preference. The vocals, playing, song choice, themeing was
too much in the vein of the stretching harsh psychedelia country terrain.

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Poster: SpacedAgain Date: May 21, 2011 11:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age yes and no

Yeah '72 is quite good. I like August and September about as well as the Spring. Beside the standards, The Other One on 9-28 is one that bears repeated listening.

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: May 21, 2011 5:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age yes and no

JOTS,anyone who would post something with the words "mowtown gleen" in it pretty much invalidate anything else they have to say,I can't say that I'm surprised that he doesn't get 72' because he clearly doesn't get anything.

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Poster: utopian Date: May 22, 2011 10:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age yes and no

A well conceived argument rooted in wisdom and logic.

.....

"Earl!.... Quick!!.... I don't understand what he's saying.
Kill it!"

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 20, 2011 9:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

not discounting the magical explosion of the 60`s and all the youthful passion that entails Ild have to still say like a lot ( most ) people I think its pretty much NOT subjective that the peak of the band in almost every way is the 70`s specifically up to the hiatus.I`d have to honestly say that for the most part I dont think there are hardly any songs that I find " improved" with age, actually the opposite especially due to the bands ability to be just exactly perfect less consistantly and the complacancy and the natural tendency to lose steam with age and of course the effect of drug habits. Having said that Im not in the camp that thinks theres no reason to listen after x yearThere are some years where the band hit it good as an over all. For instance I`d put a 76 High time of Cosmic Charlie over a 69-70 one any day, I think 1990 they nailed Row Jimmy pretty freaking good but I`d still take a 73 overall. So after this long winded post I`d say definitely Deal. I`s also say that Sugaree defnitely got way more intense in later years compared to its start. OK theres my 20 cents

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Poster: Old_NJ_Head_Zimmer Date: May 21, 2011 4:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

Agree on every point - especially take 73 overall

There are well played versions of a lot of songs in later years. Not all of them are "Better" but many are "Different"

Remember when they slowed down Friend of the Devil. A lot of people didnt like that - I like both new and old. Different way of getting your point across.

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Poster: utopian Date: May 22, 2011 11:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

No

It certainly is subjective

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Poster: bkidwell Date: May 21, 2011 1:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

I think there are a few. People have already mentioned several, Deal is a certain example. I would add Terrapin. I think the post-89 versions of Terrapin Station that do an open jam after the repeated theme are better than the earlier versions. It's not be the best performance of the sung section, but the jam on 6/23/93 makes that my choice for best-ever.

I think the 94 versions of Stella Blue with Jerry doing a passionate vocal extension of the "Stella Blue" refrain are the most emotionally powerful. 10/1/94 starts a bit unsteadily, but becomes almost overwhelmingly transcendent.

Thinking about fall 94 reminds me that the all-time greatest version of Fire on the Mountain is 10/14/94, with the brilliant pitch-bending section in the first solo and the huge build of energy at the conclusion.

When it comes to the band's best jamming material though, Dark Star, The Other One, Playing in the Band, Truckin, are all much stronger pre-retirement, but that's not news to anyone round these parts.

This post was modified by bkidwell on 2011-05-21 08:25:38

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Poster: Capt. Cook Date: May 20, 2011 9:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

Cold, Rain & Snow - Great in the late 70's & 80's
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1982-04-06.sbd.miller.105237.flac16

Birdsong - Just see the Branford Marsalis Nassau version.
ttp://www.archive.org/details/gd90-03-29.sbd.nawrocki.3389.sbeok.shnf

Shakedown Street - jams got longer and more intense and the tune came to be a great show opener - (See above for a classic 2nd set monster)


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Poster: wisconsindead Date: May 21, 2011 9:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

Deal and Jack Straw, i believe, are the best examples. Cassidy I would also agree, but i dont listen to that tune much. I think around and around could maybe go into this list. Though some arguments could be made towards it oscillating in quality.

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: May 21, 2011 9:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

o yea. I think Looks Like Rain got better as well, post donna too.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: May 21, 2011 7:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that improved with age

Bingo -- got one!!! 80s LLRs are the definitive ones, for me, anyway. Or maybe I just like that they speeded it up and got it over with faster, LOL. Plus the Bob cheese is cheesier. No, really, I do enjoy them more.

Agree on Deal. That seems to be a consensus.